FSR -- The Darkest Lord of Modern Times (faithfulreader) wrote,
FSR -- The Darkest Lord of Modern Times
faithfulreader

Slasher's Guide to Gay Sex

 

When I entered fandom and learned the word slash I was very much surprised that girls were writing it. Lots and lots of it. And for writing it, I want to say: thank you!

 

But in describing relationships/sex scenes between guys my dear female co-fandomers make some mistakes. Well, if it were not so, I would have been even more surprised.

 

This post is meant to help female slashers in writing gay sex.

 

This post reflects no more than my most humble opinion, and it’s completely up to you whether to listen to me or not. But I think that hearing me out won’t hurt fandom in any way.

 

Also I think that it’s much more helpful to hear one gay man’s account on what gay sex is rather than a bunch of statistics. Remember that statistics has potential to prove whatever you want it to. As Nietzsche said, ‘Truth is a kind of misunderstanding that is used for gaining power.’

 

Please note that this post is an edited version of all of my previous posts.

 

 

 

Slasher’s Guide to Gay Sex:

one gay man’s perspective

 

 

WARNING:

If you are underage, please, go and have underage fun.

You are welcome to return to this post when you are of age.

 

 

 

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This is something every slash writer should read before writing anything like "The top fucked the inexperienced bottom roughly and without touching the bottom for a second the bottom came crying his lover's name in ecstasy."

Thank you. I'll probably quote you alot after reading this. XD

I'd also like to be your friend...
Thank you very much for your comment!

*friends*

By the way, I noticed that you are from Finland! I am also in Finland, living in the capital. Where are you?

tsuki_no_yuugi

7 years ago

faithfulreader

7 years ago

tsuki_no_yuugi

7 years ago

hi,

can you please friend me?
i'd love to have a look at practical lessons

thanks
Salut! Bien sûr!

I noticed that you are from my favourite country! In which town you live?

yennifaire

7 years ago

I read this entry two years ago when hanging around in a Linkin Park slash fandom forum(LOL) and not until now did I find it again. Believe it or not, I just squee'd like a puppy on his favorite bone.

I fell in love with your guide immediately when I first put my hands on it and now having a chance to read it again, I still know why I did. I also read RFS vs. Minotaur and your diary thingy of your trip to Paris. Awesomesauce. And God bless your wittiness - I wonder if you are a writer, because I bet I will suck up anything flows out of your fingertips.

It's weird to fangirling a stranger and holy shit, I sound like a stalker, but I'm reading your journal and I feel it's a must to befriend you. Plus, I'm interested in digging the Practical Lesson series :DD

So, pwetty please with cherry and naked men on top, friend me?
Owww, thank you very much for your comment! I am not sure if I've ever received a comment as nice as yours. So I am of course friending you back! XD

Anyways, when I receive such nice comments... they remind me that I need to update my live journal, but unfortunately my doctoral studies are very, very intense at the moment. But I promise I will update in the early December after the exams. XD

mikekobayashi

7 years ago

faithfulreader

7 years ago

I must applaud you for writing this gui9de out for all of us slash writers. I found it to be incredible informative on the different aspects of gay sex that often get left out or over romanticized. Your descriptions were clear, clean (difficult as that may be, given the subject on which you chose to cover) and you delivered them without sounding condescending or generally disgusted with your audience.

I really appreciate the effort you've put into making this a comprehensive guide for current writers and, possibly, aspiring writers. I know that I sometimes forget the finer details that go into making sex scenes more realistic, and for that I offer my sincerest apologies. I will make sure to keep what I have read here in mind the next time I decide to write a slash fic</i>.

Again, thank you so much for writing all of this. I wish I could read through your practicals; I'm sure they're worth taking the time to view.
Thank you very much for your comment and sorry for the delay in replying! (I am a bit busy with real life... have to study a lot.)

I am really glad that you liked my guide and found it to be so useful. It means a lot to me. Thank you very much again!
WOw that was really informative. Thank you!
Thanks! I am glad you found it useful! XD

theablackthorn

6 years ago

I'd love to read your practical guides.
Thank you for your comment! You are welcome to read the practical lessons. *friends back*
Wow. Thank you for writing this! This explains things way better than other guides I've read. I've even checked out sites explaining anal sex and gay sex, but they missed so many things that you covered.

I would love to read the practical examples. Friends.
Hi! Thanks for your comment! I am glad that you found my guide useful. XD

*friends back*
Hello! I used to be friends with you on LJ, though this is my new journal. Think you could add me so that I can read those lessons again? :] Also, thanks for writing this guide!
Tack så mycket för din - komment, I guess. XD (Min svenska är inte så god!)

Du är välkommen till min LJ!
Hi.
I've read your texte and I like the way you write it. You say a lot a things very interesting.
I like a lot this sentence for example : "Teenagers can’t have technically great sex, but their sex can be great emotionally, and your task as a writer, to show that."
That is something frequently forgotten.

Thanks !
(Oh, and sorry for my weird english : I'm french).
Thanks for your comment! I got that you are French from 'texte'. :)

J'adore l'accent francais en anglais! Je pense que c'est tres charmant. Tu viens d'ou en France? Je vais a Montpellier en juillet.

kumfu

6 years ago

Oh, and I forgot to say that : I've done a recommandation of your guide on my LJ. But it's a french rec'.
Merci beaucoup ! XD

kumfu

6 years ago

faithfulreader

6 years ago

kumfu

6 years ago

faithfulreader

6 years ago

Thank you for this! It is thoughtful and very useful. I'll be linking to your essay in my livejournal - hope it isn't an inconvenience to you, especially since the post's in french?^^'
Merci beaucoup!

J'ai pas de probleme avec le francais. XD

galael

6 years ago

faithfulreader

6 years ago

galael

6 years ago

faithfulreader

6 years ago

galael

6 years ago

faithfulreader

6 years ago

galael

6 years ago

faithfulreader

6 years ago

galael

6 years ago

faithfulreader

6 years ago

You're both very entitled and very sure that your experiences are the be-all-and-end-all of gay sex.

There are only a few things on the anatomy/logistics/how-stuff-feels side of things that I can comment on with complete authority, not being a dude myself, but—the prostate is not erectile tissue. You also seem to imply that there's something wrong with guys who prefer not to have anal sex, which couldn't be further from the truth—different people enjoy different things. By claiming that things like oral sex aren't "real sex", you've actually put yourself in the minority.

And yes, your experiences and preferences are perfectly valid. So are everyone else's. There are two things that you need to understand about slash and about sex in general. The first is that people have wildly different kinks, preferences, and physical responses. Nearly any "rule", be it regarding lube, refractory periods, or even how guys express emotion, has an exception in the real world with real men/gay couples/what-have-you. And yes, of course there are things that are true for the majority of people, but one of the most important aspects of fiction is the freedom it gives writers to explore situations in which events coincide that, while not impossible, are rather unlikely to do so in real life. The interesting thing about fiction, of course, is its ability, if done well, to make such things seem completely plausible.

The second is that realism does not necessarily good slash make. Slash communities are not, you know, gay sex 101 communities, and being a gay man does not give you extra authority in slash fandom. Fanfiction is, on its most basic level, about what a community wants to see from a universe/set of characters—people write it because they want to contribute to their fandom, because they have a story to tell, or, yeah, occasionally because they want reviews. Usually it's a combination of the above. Anyway, fanworks are what the fans want them to be, and if someone finds something completely unrealistic to be hot, then who are you to question that? Erotica (or porn, although your distinction between the two seems completely arbitrary and misinformed) is meant to be hot, not 100% true-to-life, and if it's hot, then it has achieved what it's set out to do.

Of course it's important to know about one's subject matter before one attempts to write about it, and I'm all too aware of how ignorance re: this sort of stuff can completely ruin an otherwise well-done piece of writing, but taking that to extremes, especially in the bizarre, dictatorial ways that you are ("teenage boys cannot have normal sex"), isn't going to help anyone "get better at writing slash".
Thank you very much for your comment! Although it is a bit impolite, I found it quite interesting, because it's good to see that people have their own strong opinions. I certainly do not expect everyone to absolutely love my guide.

But with all due respect, I completely reject all your criticisms as unfounded. If you had read the guide carefully, you would have noticed its subtitle. It says one gay man's perspective. From this you may gather that I do not claim anything I say to be universally true.

...the prostate is not erectile tissue

It is. One very nice and very well educated American doctor told me that.

By claiming that things like oral sex aren't "real sex", you've actually put yourself in the minority

Certainly not. After I wrote this guide I've had sex with about a hundred guys. There were one or two who didn't want to fuck. And I don't think that they don't fuck in principle. Sometimes you just don't feel up to it.

The rest of the points you raised seem to be matters of opinion and it would not be productive to discuss them. But if you insist that I clarify some particular point, then I can do that.

Again, thank you for reading and commenting my guide.

chaviola

5 years ago

faithfulreader

4 years ago

Thank you, this was very informative!
I put a link to this in my journal so I don't lose it if I ever really need it (I don't normally write slash, but I do write... and I do write erotic scenes from time to time). I am sure some of my lj friend will find it useful. So thanks!
Thank you for your comment! I am glad you found my guide useful! XD
Please friend me, so I may read your examples. I found your article while Googling for Minotaur's guide. I read your guide, your differences with Minotaur, and then your three posts about your trip to France. Reading about the sexual acts in a social and emotional context helped the descriptions of the acts make more sense to me.

I like to read different points of view. I don't take any one as the definitive source. I've also read a few sex guides for gay men, eg, Joy of Gay Sex. Either I didn't know that about the prostrate, or I forgot. So I was glad to read it.

I think some of the differences may be cultural. Some of Minotaur's things sound more right to me, but I'm in the US, and so was he. For instance, whether lube is necessary, it's conventional, in the US. In the last 20 years, it's become part of the HIV prevention advice, to use plenty of lube so the condom itself doesn't tear, or create extra friction against the tissue inside. But it was common, even before HIV. Back in the 70's, I lived in a couple of predominantly gay hippy crash pads, and a few times I heard guys talking about their favorite thing to use for lube, but I never heard anyone say they just did without.

I first encountered m/m fanfic on an X-Files slash list, which had a few male writers. I recall one saying he thought women writers overemphasized the importance of anal sex because it was the act most similar to hetero intercourse. Particularly, he took issue with anal sex in situations where the guys might be discovered, or where they'd want to minimize contact with their surroundings. He said a hand job or blow job would be more practical in a dark alley, public restroom, or abandoned missile silo.

I've read at least one article about gay history in the US that says that, until the '70's, sucking was the definitive gay male sex act in the US, and fucking was more of a niche specialty.

The emotional context is more important to me, in fanfic, than clinically accurate descriptions of sex acts. I'm not a prude, it's just that tab a into slot b gets old. The reason I'm looking for info now is, I've started role-playing. When I role-play a sex scene, the other writers expect considerable detail about the sex acts and orgasm. I find the flirtation and seduction more fun to write. It's a challenge to write something that is technically accurate, and not like all the others I've read.

I really enjoyed your description of your trip to France. I'm currently role-playing a 27-year-old gay man, and he likes to screw around, without expecting emotional commitment from a hook-up. It's hard for me to communicate that mindset to people who are used to slash logic, where characters who are straight on screen usually aren't interested in men besides each other, and don't take part in the wider community of gay men.

Thank you for sharing your experiences.
Thank you for your insightful comment!

For instance, whether lube is necessary, it's conventional

If something is conventional, then it is by definition not really necessary.

He said a hand job or blow job would be more practical in a dark alley

Absolutely! Normal sex requires certain level of comfort. In a dark alley you can only have a quickie.

The emotional context is more important to me, in fanfic, than clinically accurate descriptions of sex acts

For me as well! But why not have both?

I'm currently role-playing a 27-year-old gay man, and he likes to screw around, without expecting emotional commitment from a hook-up

That is a very typical guy you have!
Another difference between the US and the rest of the world is foreskins. Most US-born men of European ancestry are circumsized (the ration of cut/uncut is declining, mostly because Mexican immigrants don't have their sons circumsized). I never thought about that, until I began roleplaying with a group that includes European players. Do you have any observations on how having a foreskin makes a difference? Thanks.
Another difference between the US and the rest of the world is foreskins

Many Muslim men have cut dicks as well. So this is not only in the US.

Do you have any observations on how having a foreskin makes a difference?

It might make a difference for the guy, whether he is cut or uncut. But usually men are cut very early in their lives, so they do not experience sex with both uncut and cut dick. So, a guy cannot really compare and can only wonder, "How it would have felt if I had been cut/uncut?"

For me it makes no difference whatsoever whether the guy I am having sex with is cut or uncut. But I met some guys for whom it does make a difference. One guy asked me: "Are you cut or uncut? I like uncut dicks..." Maybe it is some sort of fetish.

Ah, by the way, I've had sex with four or five Americans (one of whom was black and one was hispanic and the rest were white). They were all cut. But aside from that, I didn't observe any systematic difference in behaviour with European men.

zoomgollygolly

6 years ago

This was an interesting read though, it's always nice to see different peoples perspective on things. A few criticisms though:

Your comment that males no matter the way they act or look or their sexual practices are still "guys". I think that forgets to take into consideration transvestites or so called "gender queer". I've known males that have none of the society accepted male characteristics other then external genitalia. Just as I've known females who have all of them. People come in all sorts. Maybe that's why I felt a little offended at the suggestion that anyone female is overly emotional and sappy.Though I'm sure that's not what was meant.

"While dom/sub is always top/bottom, top/bottom is rarely sub/dom. And, apparently, boy/girl is always top/bottom."

I find these statements to be nothing but false. Doms do get penetrated, Subs do penetrate. That is in fact one of the most common misconceptions about D/S relationship/sex. As for the second part: strap-ons, dildos, fingers, tongues, all of these things allow a female to penetrate or "top" a male. And then there's also non-penetrative sex. So no boy/girl is NOT always top/bottom.

In regards to the men who do not fuck, you forgot the possibility that maybe neither man enjoys anal stimulation. I read an interesting article (that I wish I could link you to but sadly it's on my old dead computer) that in Japan the number one preferred act for gay men is intercrural sex, sex between the thighs.

Still I appreciate that you put forth the effort to help fix some of what you see as problems in slash. And I PARTICULARLY appreciate the fact that you emphasize the role these things play in fiction.

The other thing I found very interesting was your review of Minotaur's guide. It really drives home that there really are very few absolutes and no two peoples experiences are the same, certainly not in sex and love.
Thank you for your insightful comment!

Your comment that males no matter the way they act or look or their sexual practices are still "guys". I think that forgets to take into consideration transvestites or so called "gender queer"

We have a problem of semantics here. What I mean by a male character is not that this character has 'male' written in his passport but a more traditional understanding. There aren't many fics out there written about transgender folks. Most of the slash fics are featuring male characters in a more traditional sense. Therefore one should not forget about the masculinity.

I find these statements to be nothing but false. Doms do get penetrated, Subs do penetrate. That is in fact one of the most common misconceptions about D/S relationship/sex. As for the second part: strap-ons, dildos, fingers, tongues, all of these things allow a female to penetrate or "top" a male

Semantics, again. But I do admit that I was not very clear on this matter in the guide.

demondreams

6 years ago

faithfulreader

6 years ago

‘I have the feeling a lot of writers not only are inexperienced with male on male sex, they basically haven't been sexual with anyone

i watch gay porn just for this sort of [cough:technical information:cough] i'm never going to know the mechanics of male/male sex cause i'm a woman. i can describe my sexual experiences and attempt to translate them into male/male interaction...but its not the same.

If you’re not properly criticized, you’ll never get better at writing

very true.





Thank you for your comment! XD
Great guide, very helpful, very useful. I like the way you empahasie that this is one individual's guide to gay sex - seems more honest that way, and definitely more appealing.

Um, er, please say no if it's not okay with you, but would you mind if I asked some frank and direct questions about anal sex?
Thank you for your comment!

Sure, you can ask me about anal sex. I don't think there are many things that could make me blush! *winks*

Deleted comment

Sure! *friends back*
Thank you so much for the advice! ^_^
I'm still learning these things; so I would really like to read about those examples. Can you friend me back? :3

(I have a gay friend who also writes; we were reading this together and he told me that.. he is quite proud that there is someone out there explaining everything :P)
Hi! Sorry for the delay in replying! I am on holiday in France. XD

Thank you very much for your comment! And of course I can friend you back!

PS. Give your gay friend a kiss from me. *winks*
Oh wow. I loved reading this! I have written some smut before, but I was basically just going by what the majority of other fanfic writers do. Now I really look at it different and will probably end up linking some of my fellow amature slash writters back to you.

I have one story I'm working on that is based off Shaggy's song "It Wasn't Me" and there is going to be some slash in it, I just haven't got to that part yet and I've generally nervous to do so. Now though, this has given me a better outlook on the subject of gay sex.

I have a friend that's bi and while he's had oral sex with a guy he hasn't had sex so I haven't had the opportunity to really ask him much on the subject. He does however read my stories, only he tries to make me write them all sappy and I'm not too good at writing sappy things.

If you could, would you mind friending me back so that I could read your pratical lessons please? :)
Hi! Sorry it has taken me soooo long to reply for your comment! I am currently on holiday in the south of France, so not checking the Internet too often.

Thank you very much for your comment! I am glad that you found my guide so useful. And sure, I can friend you back. XD

sberrychan

6 years ago

This is an amazing guide and it really has been a big help when I'm writing my stories. I just really wanna say thank you for writing this. <3
Thanks! XD
Oh god, I swear I have made every slip up made to god after reading this XDDD

But saying that, I'm very grateful that I did. No, it's not going to change the way I write too much (if nothing else, I'm an entertainer, and people seem to enjoy the sappy parts), but it really gives me an insight into how true gay men feel about sex. And I am going to take on board some of the things you have pointed out here (especially the whole 'one two three fingers' thing) and hopefully improve my stories.

Thank you so much for writing this.
Thank you for your comment! XD
Thank you for writing this post. It was an interesting read. ^^
I am glad you liked it and found it interesting! XD
Will you friend me back? I want to read the paractical lessons Thank you. This was super helpful.
Thanks for your comment! I am glad you found my guide helpful. XD

*friends*
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